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Of shoes, and ships, and sealing wax...
So, at the moment, I’m reading The God Delusion by Richard Dawkins, and this has led me to think about, well, OK, myself (no use departing from tradition, after all) in terms of my religious beliefs (or lack thereof).
I was sort of brought up as a Christian. Which means to say, my parents were married in a C of E church, as were most of my other relatives, as far as I’m aware (I have no idea if my parents believe in God; I have never asked them about it (it would be rude, after all *g*, and it’s not something we talk about). I was christened. I don’t know if my schools were non-denominational in theory, but throughout my entire school career, from the ages of 5 to 17, I went to a recognizably Christian assembly every day, sang Christian hymns, and said Christian prayers. I went to boarding school for a while at the beginning of senior school, and attended church (Methodist, in this case) every Sunday, with evening prayers on Thursday. I was confirmed when I was 11 or 12, after attending confirmation classes led by our school chaplain (ah, Mr Topping, he was a card…).
I don’t know if I ever actually believed in God. Obviously, my memory of childhood is sketchy at best, but I don’t remember any moment where I specifically thought ‘I believe in God.’ I think it is true to say that I don’t ever remember believing in God, and despite my confirmation, I don’t think I gave it any thought at all as a child. As soon as I recall giving it any thought, I knew I didn’t believe it. I have been an atheist (for definite, that I can remember) from the age of about 13, and probably younger.
I believe in evolution, and have done as far back as I can remember (again, not really saying a great deal). That is, I don’t *believe*. Rationally speaking, it seems the most likely explanation for how the world arrived in the place it did. Should it ever be disproven, and a more likely explanation offered, I should (probably reluctantly; I don’t do change well) have to go with that new explanation. We don’t know everything in the world. Maybe we can’t know everything (like one of those eternal one-over-infinity maths problems, where you never quite reach a finite answer). But we can theorise, and approach the questions surrounding our existence as scientifically and rationally as possible.
I think the concept of the existence of God is ludicrous. There is no evidence for God’s existence, ever. I know, you’re not supposed to need proof. You just need faith. But how ridiculous is that? Here’s a thing. You can’t proof it exists. But if you really, really believe hard enough, then that’s fine. It exists. What, is God Tinkerbell? The world is just… the world. It is part of a solar system, which is part of a galaxy, which is part of the universe. How did it start? I haven’t the foggiest. It’s always possible that God did indeed leap forth and create the whole thing, but that seems as unlikely as any other explanation. How did life begin on earth? Don’t know that either. But once again, God probably ranks pretty low as the originator on a scale of possibility. Maybe God does exist after all, but it seems, as the years clock on, increasingly unlikely. Through millennia of gradual change, the world came to be the one we know, and that’s all there is to say about (well, from my generally uneducated point of view; I’m sure the scientific community can go on for a bit longer on the subject).
I know that, officially, the Anglican church and, I think, the Catholic church have discounted creationism as an actual theory of the beginning of the world. But there are still an alarming number of people who seem to believe that all of science is wrong, and God created man as it is now (more or less), presumably in the midst of creating trees and mountains and light and dark and jam and trousers etc etc etc (but not, you know, gays or anything… *g*). This is one of the reasons why I think religion is dangerous, because it leads people to believe that abandoning rational thought is fine and dandy. So what if there’s evidence that man has been bopping around on this earth for quite a long time, and the earth itself has been there for considerably longer? Fuck it! God created it all in an afternoon less than 10,000 years ago. As you do. And yes, of course I know this doesn’t apply to everyone who’s religious, and believing in God *obviously* doesn’t mean that you’re daft, and equally not-believing doesn’t make you better than people who do.
But I still think disbelief is a more rational way forward (with, always, the potential for a mind change should God suddenly descend and make his presence known, because as with so many things in life, we can’t know 100% for sure either way).
I was sort of brought up as a Christian. Which means to say, my parents were married in a C of E church, as were most of my other relatives, as far as I’m aware (I have no idea if my parents believe in God; I have never asked them about it (it would be rude, after all *g*, and it’s not something we talk about). I was christened. I don’t know if my schools were non-denominational in theory, but throughout my entire school career, from the ages of 5 to 17, I went to a recognizably Christian assembly every day, sang Christian hymns, and said Christian prayers. I went to boarding school for a while at the beginning of senior school, and attended church (Methodist, in this case) every Sunday, with evening prayers on Thursday. I was confirmed when I was 11 or 12, after attending confirmation classes led by our school chaplain (ah, Mr Topping, he was a card…).
I don’t know if I ever actually believed in God. Obviously, my memory of childhood is sketchy at best, but I don’t remember any moment where I specifically thought ‘I believe in God.’ I think it is true to say that I don’t ever remember believing in God, and despite my confirmation, I don’t think I gave it any thought at all as a child. As soon as I recall giving it any thought, I knew I didn’t believe it. I have been an atheist (for definite, that I can remember) from the age of about 13, and probably younger.
I believe in evolution, and have done as far back as I can remember (again, not really saying a great deal). That is, I don’t *believe*. Rationally speaking, it seems the most likely explanation for how the world arrived in the place it did. Should it ever be disproven, and a more likely explanation offered, I should (probably reluctantly; I don’t do change well) have to go with that new explanation. We don’t know everything in the world. Maybe we can’t know everything (like one of those eternal one-over-infinity maths problems, where you never quite reach a finite answer). But we can theorise, and approach the questions surrounding our existence as scientifically and rationally as possible.
I think the concept of the existence of God is ludicrous. There is no evidence for God’s existence, ever. I know, you’re not supposed to need proof. You just need faith. But how ridiculous is that? Here’s a thing. You can’t proof it exists. But if you really, really believe hard enough, then that’s fine. It exists. What, is God Tinkerbell? The world is just… the world. It is part of a solar system, which is part of a galaxy, which is part of the universe. How did it start? I haven’t the foggiest. It’s always possible that God did indeed leap forth and create the whole thing, but that seems as unlikely as any other explanation. How did life begin on earth? Don’t know that either. But once again, God probably ranks pretty low as the originator on a scale of possibility. Maybe God does exist after all, but it seems, as the years clock on, increasingly unlikely. Through millennia of gradual change, the world came to be the one we know, and that’s all there is to say about (well, from my generally uneducated point of view; I’m sure the scientific community can go on for a bit longer on the subject).
I know that, officially, the Anglican church and, I think, the Catholic church have discounted creationism as an actual theory of the beginning of the world. But there are still an alarming number of people who seem to believe that all of science is wrong, and God created man as it is now (more or less), presumably in the midst of creating trees and mountains and light and dark and jam and trousers etc etc etc (but not, you know, gays or anything… *g*). This is one of the reasons why I think religion is dangerous, because it leads people to believe that abandoning rational thought is fine and dandy. So what if there’s evidence that man has been bopping around on this earth for quite a long time, and the earth itself has been there for considerably longer? Fuck it! God created it all in an afternoon less than 10,000 years ago. As you do. And yes, of course I know this doesn’t apply to everyone who’s religious, and believing in God *obviously* doesn’t mean that you’re daft, and equally not-believing doesn’t make you better than people who do.
But I still think disbelief is a more rational way forward (with, always, the potential for a mind change should God suddenly descend and make his presence known, because as with so many things in life, we can’t know 100% for sure either way).
no subject
And to be honest, I don't think that belief in God is as rational as no belief in God. Because that implies, in the absence of any proof either way, that one is prepared to believe in the existence of absolutely anything to the same extent that one is prepared to believe that it might not exist. Unicorns. Vampires. Super-intelligent shades of the colour blue. And I think probable disbelief (always with the option of being wrong) until one is given some indication that this may-or-may-not *does* exist, is more rational than assuming all the may-or-may-nots *do* exist until proved to the contrary. Since it's rather difficult to prove conclusively the non-existence of something, and presumably easier to prove that something *does* exist, shouldn't the burden of proof be on those who claim it exists?
no subject
no subject
Not when it's something this big...
no subject
May I ask (sorry, I hate sounding all confrontational, I don't mean to be!) whether you think there is proof of God's existence, or if there *isn't* proof of his existence, and one just has to believe in it?
no subject
I am not actually sure what I think about proof God exists. I understand some things as being evidence of His existence, but at the same time, I am not sure they are quite proof exactly, because they're not readily quantifiable, or because they could be explained by something else...
no subject
See, on the whole proof part, where there is no objective proof, it seems to me that the dialogue on God's existence must be analogous to this:
A: I believe that an invisible creature lives in my garden.
B: Fair enough. Can you prove it?
A: No. Can you disprove it?
B: Well, not really.
A: I see. Well, in that case, I think we'd better believe in the invisible creature.
B: But... there's nothing to suggest there's an invisible creature *there*. I mean, has it *done* anything?
A: *shrugs* Well, that plant pot fell over.
B: That could have been anything! The wind, a cat in the garden, an inherent instability in the plant pot...
A: ...*or* an invisible creature.
And I know that sounds flippant, but seriously, that's how it seems from my point of view. I don't *understand* faith.
no subject
For me I suppose it's to do with having a kind of inner certainty, that I can't really explain. It's to do with feeling connected in a way I can't really understand or articulate, to a being far beyond anything on this Earth. I can't reason it out, I can't give some kind of proof, it's just how I feel.
I suppose it's because I think all this is more than just a conincidence & because I believe in some of the things like visions & miracles. They might be something else, yes, but I don't think they are.
So yes, to an extent, my faith is something I've effectively created and shaped myself. And I don't really understand the concept of faith myself sometimes. *sighs*