"No wonder they say, 'oh, women, women!'" "Who does?" "Well, chaps, mostly"

[chaletian]

Further to ankaret’s post mentioning the Schrodinger’s Rapist post and having ended up at this post about privilege, which happens to say, “If you've ever tried to describe to a man what it feels like to live under the threat of sexual assault and had him respond by suggesting pepper spray, a male escort, or self-defense classes, then you know in part what this is like”, I have been giving some thought to this concept of women being afraid of sexual assault in a way that men can’t conceive.

At first glance, I find posts like the Schrodinger’s Rapist to be a little OTT. I think to myself, you know, that’s all well and good, and yes a woman is far, far, (massively) far more likely to be sexually assaulted than a man, but I don’t actually walk down a street afraid that I’m going to be raped. I don’t see in every man I meet a potential rapist.

Except, I’ve been thinking about this some more, and I sort of do. The path from my local station to the main road my flat’s on runs through some woods. I walk down there alone late at night, and I’m not particularly worried about. But if it’s really dark, I don’t like it. When one of the lights stopped working, it freaked me out a bit. I always check behind me to see if anyone’s following me, and I’m never completely at ease until they’ve passed me. Occasionally there’ll be a couple of men just standing there, and that makes me uncomfortable. It’s not that it stops me walking down there. It’s not that I ever really articulate my worries even in my own head. It’s just that I feel relieved when I reach the main road.

I meet men, and I don’t think, “you could be a rapist for all I know.” But, come on, I don’t think it’s exactly that straightforward, is it? A friend of mine went to meet a man she’d meet on Match.com, and even though some of his texts that evening on her way to meet him made her uneasy, she was still planning to do it (fortunately, when it became apparent that she wasn’t going to sleep with him, he told her to forget it), and when she told me I was horrified! Jizzy Chrizzy, the woman’s got the sense of a beetle! Who knows what he would have done? When you meet strange men, of course you should tell someone where you’re going and with whom, and of course you should think twice if your spidey sense starts tingling. Because you never know. And that’s the point: as women, we know what can happen and (if we’ve actually got any common sense at all) our minds automatically plan accordingly. I might not consciously think a man might be a rapist, but instinctively I’m going to act as if it’s a possibility.

That’s a weird thing to have to write. Like I said, I’ve never really articulated this before. I’ve never really thought this before, not consciously.

Anyway, just to round this off, this has been said many times before by people better able to express it, but there is something so twisted about the whole “how women can protect themselves against rape” thing. In the dialogue about preventing sexual assault, it’s all about women being careful and women staying out of dark places and women carrying pepper sprays. What the fuck happened to men not raping women? Men learning that when a woman says no that might possibly be what she means? It’s not the women in this scenario who are the problem.

So, just some light Thursday thinking for everyone… *g*

Comments

[katherinea.livejournal.com]

Hmm. But by the same logic is not every person I meet potentially a pick pocket as I zip up my handbag – and indeed will not buy a handbag that does not zip. And all of London is a potential burglar as I lock up my house each morning.
That second example’s interesting, people often hark back a golden age when you could leave your door unlocked. We have friends in the country that do it. So maybe that does destroy my argument in part.
But I guess like most things in life it’s a question of degree. I’m aware of the man behind me as I walk home late at night, but the way some people talk it feels like they think every woman spends every minute of her life thinking about being sexually assaulted. I just don’t feel like that and I don’t believe the majority of women do either. To me it seems like I’m being made into some sort of victim that I just am not.
Maybe I’d feel differently if someone did sexually assault me. I hope I don’t have to find out.

[morganmuffle]

It's amazing the things we do unconsciously isn't it? I've noticed recently that when I'm unnerved because I can hear footsteps behind me or there's a large group of guys around I'll get my house keys out LONG before I get anywhere near my house without ever really noticing I've done it till afterwards... not sure if I think I can use them in defence or if it's just to get me into the house faster :-S

I think there are things that (in a generalisation) women think about more than men even if we don't realise we're doing it. Men I know have in the past not understood at all why walking behind a woman when you're the only two people on the street in the dark is a bad thing but I know very few women who wouldn't immediately spot the danger/feeling of fear.

It does get exagerated I think but equally that's because even more of the time it gts downgraded till it's almost disappeared.

[megaleena.livejournal.com]

Anyway, just to round this off, this has been said many times before by people better able to express it, but there is something so twisted about the whole “how women can protect themselves against rape” thing. In the dialogue about preventing sexual assault, it’s all about women being careful and women staying out of dark places and women carrying pepper sprays. What the fuck happened to men not raping women? Men learning that when a woman says no that might possibly be what she means? It’s not the women in this scenario who are the problem.

I was trying to articulate this to Ed once. That *everything* rape related is aimed and directed at the woman: what she did, what she didn't do, what she could have done, what she drank, what she wore, blah blah and I was trying to get him to see that no where is it ever just said "he should not have raped her". He couldn't see it, because he's never been on the end of that for his entire life. A woman should be able to be able to walk down an isolated alley, on her own, in the pitch black, pissed out of her face and wearing no clothes and not be raped. Because you. should. not. rape. But if anyone ever did that? She'd be pulled apart for not looking after herself.

[onbluebayou.livejournal.com]

I don't consciously constantly think that I might get raped and have escape plans ready, either, but there's this one tunnel on my route home that scares the crap out of me, and if there's a big group of boys or men in it or it's at night, then bugger it, I'm crossing the dual carriageway. There's a reason that every girl I know calls those things "rape tunnels". I don't think having watched Irreversible made me much more at ease about it.

Anyway, just to round this off, this has been said many times before by people better able to express it, but there is something so twisted about the whole “how women can protect themselves against rape” thing. In the dialogue about preventing sexual assault, it’s all about women being careful and women staying out of dark places and women carrying pepper sprays. What the fuck happened to men not raping women? Men learning that when a woman says no that might possibly be what she means? It’s not the women in this scenario who are the problem.
I agree with this so hard. (I brought this up with my dad once, though, and he replied, "Yes, well, I should be able to fall asleep on the high street with my wallet beside me and wake up to find all my stuff there, but it doesn't work like that" and I wasn't sure which one of us was the one who Just Didn't Get It.)

[weird-bird.livejournal.com]

We must share a brain, I was having this very conversation with Darren this evening.

What makes me really cross though, is women who perpetuate this cycle, well she shouldn't have worn a short skirt, or had a few drinks, or walked home alone.
She was taking un-necessary risks, they essentially blame the woman for what happened to her.

Because the message that they are sending out is that basically men cannot control there urges, that they are unable to stop themselves if they see a women dressed attractively or showing lots of skin, or are in a situation where taking advantage would be easy. So women are basically telling men, hey its ok we know your not capable of controling yourselves, you shouldn't have to try!

Mothers are teaching this to there sons by the way they behave and act.

The reason that they do it is that it makes them feel better, because otherwise, well they are just as much at risk as the next person, and that is just too scary to contemplate, so if she hadn't worn the short skirt she would have been fine, so if I don't wear short skirts then it won't happen to me.

Makes me soo so mad.

[aguido.livejournal.com]

Well. Men not raping women is...assumed. Men being required to listen to demurrals is...assumed. In case the assumptions are not explicit enough, there are actual laws where this stuff is written down.

"How women can protect themselves against rape" is up there with "How men can protect themselves against assault and robbery" as a valid discussion to have. You might not like it that the discussion is apparently necessary, but why are you assuming that unless we yell at the top of my lungs "I don't want to rape you" as a prefix to every discussion, we don't understand that raping you is not OK?

We get that it's not OK. Some men don't. That's who you should be carrying an appropriate weapon for. It's not OK for a tourist to descend into a Somali slum and get beaten and robbed and killed by the denizens. But if I made that visit without taking appropriate precautions, and came out barely alive, people would not be applauding me for my competent grasp of the realities of the situation. They would be asking, "why on earth did you do that?"

And I wouldn't have a good answer. And i couldn't get out of it by whining about the assumptions of agency behind the question.

Regardless, yes. I actually think compulsory execution of proven rapists would be a fun thing to institute. And it's a shame that apparently the statistics do in fact support a quasi-paranoid approach to the risk of rape, and it's true that the only real fix is to sort out the rapists preemptively. Until then, though...

[acroamatica.livejournal.com]

As a working musician, I can't count the number of times I turned down a gig simply because of the part of town it was in and the time of night I would have to get me and my guitar home. I amy be a rock chick, but I'm 5'4", skinny and pretty weak; my 6-foot 200lb roadies would just laugh and say "it's only the Cobalt, damn, girl, I'm there every night of the week drunk off my ass and nothing's ever happened" and there was nothing I could do that would make them see that it wasn't the same for me, and I wasn't letting the band do the gig unless someone would drive me home - preferably one of them. The worst was actually the one dear, sweet, well-meaning dude who insisted that I didn't need him to come with me and I was out of my mind, because HE would never rape, mug, or threaten a woman and thus wouldn't believe that I would believe that anyone would. Despite a friend of mine having had someone grab her from behind and try to choke her (didn't find out why, she knows martial arts) THE WEEK BEFORE. In a safer neighbourhood. It was just... I couldn't decide if he was part of the solution, or part of the problem...

I don't know. It seems like there isn't much we can do besides carrying pepper spray and a phone at all times. *sigh*